Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Browser war, everyone else still losing.

Yet another international company, yet another error. Trying to register on a site just fill in a simple form and hit submit and "an error has occurred"

Unfortunately a problem has occurred with the [website]. Click here to return to the login page.

If you wish to report this problem then click here to send an email to [company] or call the E-Commerce Helpdesk on [number] between 08:30 and 17:30, Monday to Thursday, and between 09:30 and 17:30 on Friday.
There then follows some technical info on exactly what module failed. So I called them up and the first question asked
"Are you using Internet Explorer?"
"No. Why would that make a difference?"
"Ah that'll be the problem. Our site's only designed to work with Internet Explorer"
"Why?"
"I don't know that's just the IT checklist I have"
"But all I've got is an error message, if it said at the beginning 'this site only works with IE' it might have helped; okay can I talk to someone else?"
"I don't know who I could put you through to"
"How about the site administrators?"
"They're in India I'll have to see if I can pass you through"
...
I get passed up to his boss
"Hi what's the problem?"
"I've just been told I can't use your site without Internet Explorer"
"That's correct"
"Why? All I'm doing is posting you a simple form and getting a reply. What's my browser got to do with it, all the work's being done at your end at the server"
"Yeah it was designed for IE"
"So if I was using a Mac or Linux it's basically 'Sorry you can't use our site' that's insane"
"Yeah if I had a fiver for every complaint about that..."
"So is anyone doing anything about it?"
"No, well not right now. Give me your number and if anything alters I can call"

[sigh] Again I just don't get this attitude, sure if they're using ActiveX or some Microsoft only Java function (which they're not) then this one browser only attitude is understandable; but if not then it takes more work to break functionality at this level then to code for all browsers. I mean seriously how fundamental is posting form data?

I think I'll look up this company's boss email and send him a polite note s/he probably doesn't even know.

[Update - Wow that was quick someone just phoned to tell me the problem lies with the page coding and at the moment they're not prepared to change it - hey at least they're honest]

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed the “If I had a fiver” comment. Turn it around: “if I lost a customer every time someone couldn't access my website…” I assume that the Indian dudes were contractors just running the website, in which case the client probably doesn't know that the contractors' lack of will is losing them customers. IME, clients of web design consultants/contractors are notoriously bad both at formulating specifications that reflect what they want and testing that the specs have been met. (So, like clients of other sectors of the technology industry then.) It is this lack of awareness on the part of the clients that allows cowboys to get away with websites that consist of images or Flash with the text rendered into them, so that the client has to go back to the contractor for even the tiniest change to the site.

Don B said...

@dan "clients of web design consultants/contractors are notoriously bad both at formulating specifications that reflect what they want and testing that the specs have been met."

What about techies that are notoriously bad at talking in a language that us mere mortals can understand. There was no way that I could write the spec in language that my IT department could translate into their own gobbledegook - if I could I would have been capable of writing the program in the first place.

There are many times when I read a piece on here, or on WFA, that I know I have just not understood a word of what has been written. I could tell my IT department what end result I wanted to achieve, but as I didn't know what was technically possible I needed a lot of assistance in converting my speak into a written language. I was used to drafting Statutory Instruments and legal language for discussion in parliament - I didn't expect my IT department to write in that language, I had to interpret what the politicians and public wanted to achieve into a legal format. When I was in court my clients expected me to be imaginative. I wanted my IT department to be imaginative and show me what was or might be possible. I wanted them to show me something that I didn't know was possible.

However, there have equally been occasions when FlipC has written some really good pieces (specially for me?) on the technology of modern domestic equipment (TVs, DVDs etc) that have helped me enormously when I have needed to deal with sales assistants who blind their customers with pseudo-science.

[PS. There are times when I wish I understood more of how the computer language of Wyfopedia works and I could put right some of the glitches in the system that is running at present. This old dog still has much to learn!]

FlipC said...

So long as it works from their perspective that's it.

Talking about this with someone who wondered why I was getting het up about it
"Why not just use IE?" he asked.
"Because it's like driving up to what appears to be a perfectly normal road and being told that it's been specifically designed for one type of car... and that's a Reliant Robin."
"Not good"
"And then the owner of the road expresses surprise that you're even driving a different type of car"
"Hmm"[laughs]
"And the only reason you're there in the first place is cos the owner has plastered big 'come and use my great road' ads everywhere; it just irks"
"Yeah I think I can see that now"

Trouble is of course is there's a lot of Robin users on the 'net so this sort of attitude might not seem odd.

FlipC said...

@Don: Our posts crossed and reading my first line "So long as it works from their perspective that's it." in conjunction with your post seems a touch elitist to me; so I'll expound.

I wasn't denigrating the specifiers, in this case they just want a site that works. The firm they hired produces something for them and the specifiers check it out on their equipment and hey look it works how they want? As far as they're concerned that's it.

They might not even realise it only functions correctly for just one make of browser because they simply didn't know that others exist, it's not stupidity it's ignorance. Specifically ignorance that should have been dispelled by the company they hired.

I've got someone at the moment talking to me about their website and I've briefly walked them through such simple things such as the fact that the name they've bought isn't tied to the actual space they put their website. I've got them to look at sub-hosting on a host server they're already using (but not to their full allotted capacity). I've discussed exactly what they're going to use their site for and what they might want to do with it in the future, how they want to deal with updating it and what might change.

So far it's come back to a simple online advertising site that uses simple HTML, CSS, some simple SSI with and the ability to contact the owners about services. They're not going to be selling anything directly, they're not going to have clients that'll need or even want personalised information. Cake for all browsers

Anonymous said...

Don: You are quite right, and if you hire competent contractors they will be experienced in finding out exactly what problems the final system is supposed to solve - "requirements capture" - and will be prepared to spend a lot of effort on it, to make sure that what you get is what you really want. But obviously a cowboy outfit won't want to make the customer think about requirements, they just want to sell you a half-assed solution that just about complies with whatever you have in writing and probably doesn't do what you actually want.

So if you want to protect yourself against cowboys, and you want to make it easier for contractors to see what you want - especially if the problems you're trying to solve are unfamiliar to them - then you should spend some time beforehand thinking about what properties an acceptable solution will have. It shouldn't be about specifications or technical details: thoughts like "It should be easy for me to edit pages later," or, "Blind people should be able to use the website", are the sort of thing I am thinking of. Having thought about this, when the contractor shows you a prototype or the finished product, you have a way to tell whether they are trying to solve your problem or just trying to fulfil the contract.

It's just like buying any other complicated thing. Say you want to buy a camera. If you go to a reputable camera shop, the assistant will try to find out what you want to use the camera for, where, what you want to do with the pictures, &c., and will use all this information to recommend a particular model, or give a choice of two or three, explaining in plain English how the technical differences between them relate to your needs.

If you go to a less reputable shop, the assistant will try to find out your budget, bamboozle you with meaningless figures and detail, and will sell you whatever model they've overstocked this month. The wily shopper will, before even going to the shop, read some product reviews and comparisons, will look at prices online, and will ask knowledgeable friends for advice. That way he has something to check the shop assistant's recommendation against. If you go to a reputable shop in the first place, it's completely unnecessary, but if you don't, it's useful to be able to tell.

FlipC said...

Dan: "spend some time beforehand thinking about what properties an acceptable solution will have"

Which itself requires research, how many early-birds picked up an LCD or plasma TV that didn't have an HDMI connector? You can only ask for it if you know about it. Like the current IDTVs that only decode mpeg2, if you don't know the HD content will be transmitted in mpeg4 how do you ask?

'Is this a HD TV?' - 'Yes'
'Does it have a digital tuner?' - 'Yes'

Not necessarily the same as 'Will this TV pick up digital HD broadcasts?'

Dan:"The wily shopper will, before even going to the shop, read some product reviews and comparisons"

Gods bless the internet and all who sail on her, this used to be such a pig flicking through various magazines and you could never be quite certain they weren't hyping something up because the company had bought a year's worth of advertising.

Anonymous said...

FlipC: It is as you say. If users really could think of all the hard cases for themselves, we wouldn't need programmers. I'm not saying that users should (or even can) expect to work out exactly what they want in advance; what I'm saying is that cowboy traders prey on ignorant customers, and if you want to make yourself a more challenging target, you need to make yourself less ignorant. Only if you know that your contractor, or the person selling you the camera, both is trustworthy and knows what they're talking about, then can you put it all in their hands.

FlipC said...

Dan H: Oh gods yes you can't expect laymen to know everything about a subject. What got deleted in a draft of my comment(which I thought I'd left in) was "If they're can only talk jargon at you - leave".

With reference to trustworthiness, I think the thing to remember is that you're dealing with a business whose purpose is to make money. So if this is a one-off and they're never going to see you again, if once you've bought it you're pretty much locked into using them and if they don't necessarily rely on word-of-mouth sales then I think you've got to assume they're going to say or do anything to persuade you to buy the most expensive thing you can afford (or not with HP) and with all the frills.